Beast Wars Sourcebook #3 Options

[Walky]

My vote for best Beast Wars episode is "Bad Spark."

[Wildwade]

Agenda really just suffers from "Look at this cool crap" factor, and offers nothing substantial with it.

Uh, wow, so you missed all the SIlverbolt/Blackarachnia development, Megatron's true ambitions revealed, Inferno's insane devotion driven to the breaking point, the beginnings of the Silverbolt/Cheetor rivalry, that excellent scene with Primal reprimanding Silverbolt, and....

Seriously, the G1 stuff is the LEAST riveting part of the Agenda three-parter.

This post has been edited by Wildwade: Apr 4 2008, 12:19 PM

[Transfotaku]

Agenda really just suffers from "Look at this cool crap" factor, and offers nothing substantial with it.

Uh, wow, so you missed all the SIlverbolt/Blackarachnia development, Megatron's true ambitions revealed, Inferno's insane devotion driven to the breaking point, the beginnings of the Silverbolt/Cheetor rivalry, that excellent scene with Primal reprimanding Silverbolt, and....

Seriously, the G1 stuff is the LEAST riveting part of the Agenda three-parter.

How'd I miss all that?

Oh that's right...because ALL Of that existed beforehand! ALL of it!

So, yeah, next time you quote there chief, don't be disingenious. I said that Agenda introduced nothing new. Everything we see in Agenda has roots elsewhere, prior to it.

Also the Agenda show gets major failure points for making the BW guys be knee high to a Micron or Micromaster. To be fair though, it's partly the fandom's fault that they don't understand dramatic intent, but still, a T-Rex, if we use real world analogues, would be at least as big as a mack truck like Prime. And Rhinox should be bigger than most Autocars.

[The Drifter]

Agenda really just suffers from "Look at this cool crap" factor, and offers nothing substantial with it.

Uh, wow, so you missed all the SIlverbolt/Blackarachnia development, Megatron's true ambitions revealed, Inferno's insane devotion driven to the breaking point, the beginnings of the Silverbolt/Cheetor rivalry, that excellent scene with Primal reprimanding Silverbolt, and....

Seriously, the G1 stuff is the LEAST riveting part of the Agenda three-parter.

Dude, please be careful when you cut out one part of a conversation - I didn't say that :-/

[The Drifter]

My vote for best Beast Wars episode is "Bad Spark."

I don't know how I missed that - I spent 8 months waiting to find a TM Rampage toy after that episode.

This post has been edited by The Drifter: Apr 4 2008, 10:07 PM

[Magnusblitz]

Also the Agenda show gets major failure points for making the BW guys be knee high to a Micron or Micromaster. To be fair though, it's partly the fandom's fault that they don't understand dramatic intent, but still, a T-Rex, if we use real world analogues, would be at least as big as a mack truck like Prime. And Rhinox should be bigger than most Autocars.

And Rattrap would be the size of an action figure, and Waspinator, Tarantulus and Scorponok would all be even smaller...what's your point? Scale is not something known to be adhered anything nearly rigidly in Transformers.

Besides, if you want to complain about which episode really made the Transformers human sized, try episode 4 (with Stonehenge).

[Wildwade]

How'd I miss all that?

Oh that's right...because ALL Of that existed beforehand! ALL of it!

So, yeah, next time you quote there chief, don't be disingenious. I said that Agenda introduced nothing new. Everything we see in Agenda has roots elsewhere, prior to it.

I was attacking the "nothing substantial" part of your criticism, not misrepresenting what you said.

If you consider what I listed in the previous post as not character advancement, substantial plot development, and greater world-building of the BW universe, then I consider that foolish.

If you consider someone who had never seen Gen 1 watching those episodes, they are STILL an amazing culmination of plot threads from the previous season and that one. Which honestly should be expected. Did you want a "standalone" season finale that introduced something out of left field? I'm not certain what you would consider such.

Dude, please be careful when you cut out one part of a conversation - I didn't say that :-/

You are correct. My mistake.

This post has been edited by Wildwade: Apr 4 2008, 11:29 PM

[Transfotaku]

Also the Agenda show gets major failure points for making the BW guys be knee high to a Micron or Micromaster. To be fair though, it's partly the fandom's fault that they don't understand dramatic intent, but still, a T-Rex, if we use real world analogues, would be at least as big as a mack truck like Prime. And Rhinox should be bigger than most Autocars.

And Rattrap would be the size of an action figure, and Waspinator, Tarantulus and Scorponok would all be even smaller...what's your point? Scale is not something known to be adhered anything nearly rigidly in Transformers.

Besides, if you want to complain about which episode really made the Transformers human sized, try episode 4 (with Stonehenge).

Obviously you failed to understand the point. I never said that I complained they were human size.
I complained they were tinier than the tiniest G1 guys.

In the G1 toons, the guys were scaled fairly well. They were 'human sized' in the terms that their vehicle mode fit a human inside them properly. They were, at least in vehicle mode, scaled to a real human vehicle.
Yet in Agenda, you get a TM Megatron that's the size of Prime's pinky finger.

That's what I'm complaining about in regards to size.

And before anyone goes, "Oh they were size shifters in G1" - show me a time when Prime or Huffer or Prowl or Skyfire or Starscream and his jets grow or shrink to fit their altmode. We get Soundwave and Megatron to do it, that's about it.

[Transfotaku]

How'd I miss all that?

Oh that's right...because ALL Of that existed beforehand! ALL of it!

So, yeah, next time you quote there chief, don't be disingenious. I said that Agenda introduced nothing new. Everything we see in Agenda has roots elsewhere, prior to it.

I was attacking the "nothing substantial" part of your criticism, not misrepresenting what you said.

If you consider what I listed in the previous post as not character advancement, substantial plot development, and greater world-building of the BW universe, then I consider that foolish.

If you consider someone who had never seen Gen 1 watching those episodes, they are STILL an amazing culmination of plot threads from the previous season and that one. Which honestly should be expected. Did you want a "standalone" season finale that introduced something out of left field? I'm not certain what you would consider such.

Dude, please be careful when you cut out one part of a conversation - I didn't say that :-/

You are correct. My mistake.

Missed the point. I said Agenda introduced nothing substantial.
Because everything you said was subplots and threads that existed before Agenda.

Agenda just brought several of them into existence in an obvious, hit you over the head, fashion. But they already existed prior. So, besides the intro of the Ark and the complete and total change of the series which marks the beginning of the worst eps of the series, I stand by my statement: Agenda added nothing new and substantial that was worthwhile.

[Fishbug]

So how 'bout that Beast Wars Sourcebook #3?

[Bass X0]

And before anyone goes, "Oh they were size shifters in G1" - show me a time when Prime or Huffer or Prowl or Skyfire or Starscream and his jets grow or shrink to fit their altmode. We get Soundwave and Megatron to do it, that's about it.

But they do grow to fit their alternate mode. Even if it isn't focused on or even noticeable, they still do it.

http://www.seibertron.com/images/cartoon/f...mp;name=Swindle

Or you trying to tell me Starscream, just slightly taller than Swindle in the pic, transforms into an incredibly tiny jet if neither Swindle or Starscream grow or shrink to fit their alt mode?

[Shockprowl04]

How'd I miss all that?

Oh that's right...because ALL Of that existed beforehand! ALL of it!

So, yeah, next time you quote there chief, don't be disingenious. I said that Agenda introduced nothing new. Everything we see in Agenda has roots elsewhere, prior to it.

I was attacking the "nothing substantial" part of your criticism, not misrepresenting what you said.

If you consider what I listed in the previous post as not character advancement, substantial plot development, and greater world-building of the BW universe, then I consider that foolish.

If you consider someone who had never seen Gen 1 watching those episodes, they are STILL an amazing culmination of plot threads from the previous season and that one. Which honestly should be expected. Did you want a "standalone" season finale that introduced something out of left field? I'm not certain what you would consider such.

Dude, please be careful when you cut out one part of a conversation - I didn't say that :-/

You are correct. My mistake.

Missed the point. I said Agenda introduced nothing substantial.
Because everything you said was subplots and threads that existed before Agenda.

Agenda just brought several of them into existence in an obvious, hit you over the head, fashion. But they already existed prior. So, besides the intro of the Ark and the complete and total change of the series which marks the beginning of the worst eps of the series, I stand by my statement: Agenda added nothing new and substantial that was worthwhile.

I agree that season 3 was the worst season of the show but the Gen1 stuff WAS new to BW. It was touched upon fleetingly in other eps, particularly Possession, but the Agenda made it important.

And it HAD to be important. Because if they are on Earth in the past, and they KNOW that, Megatron would just look daft for not attempting anything involving the Ark...

[Transfotaku]

And before anyone goes, "Oh they were size shifters in G1" - show me a time when Prime or Huffer or Prowl or Skyfire or Starscream and his jets grow or shrink to fit their altmode. We get Soundwave and Megatron to do it, that's about it.

But they do grow to fit their alternate mode. Even if it isn't focused on or even noticeable, they still do it.

http://www.seibertron.com/images/cartoon/f...mp;name=Swindle

Or you trying to tell me Starscream, just slightly taller than Swindle in the pic, transforms into an incredibly tiny jet if neither Swindle or Starscream grow or shrink to fit their alt mode?

You're using G1 eps as a bible for measurement? They couldn't even get the colors of the TFs right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

Seriously, do you see Starscream going from a 30' tall robot to a 2' long thing?
They stay the same general size. A few parts here and there may seem to grow larger, and perspective may make things seem larger or smaller (as will bad artwork), but they're staying relatively the same size. Not like the super tiny transformation of Megs and Sounders.
Nor like the super tiny Maximals/Predacons.

[Blot]

And before anyone goes, "Oh they were size shifters in G1" - show me a time when Prime or Huffer or Prowl or Skyfire or Starscream and his jets grow or shrink to fit their altmode. We get Soundwave and Megatron to do it, that's about it.

*Cough cough*.

[Liam Shalloo]

can we create a whine about size changing and agenda thread?

[Transfotaku]

And before anyone goes, "Oh they were size shifters in G1" - show me a time when Prime or Huffer or Prowl or Skyfire or Starscream and his jets grow or shrink to fit their altmode. We get Soundwave and Megatron to do it, that's about it.

*Cough cough*.

Ouch. You bastard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

I entirely blocked out that episode from memory though. Because it's that bad. But good play.

[Spark]

can we create a whine about size changing and agenda thread?

Yes, please. This thread is for Sourcebook whining only.

[Sailor Unicron]

So, there's really no point in me trying to hunt these down?

It's a shame, really. I've got a few ideas for some animal-based Transformers, but it's so tedious to track down reference images from the Internet, especially when several of them are from the Japanese series.

[Transfotaku]

can we create a whine about size changing and agenda thread?

I had a point though, long ago, which the Agenda bit was part of. It boils down to:

Anytime Ben Yee or Simon Furman pick up a pen to write about BW, they sin against all language.

[SkyQuake]

can we create a whine about size changing and agenda thread?

Yes, please. This thread is for Sourcebook whining only.

There's a winery in the Sourcebook? I'll drink to that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-ball.gif) Now I nunderstan'.