2.15: "The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000", *Spoilers*Spoilers*APPLE CIDER*Spoilers*Spoilers* Options

[Sobana]

I'd like to return to my original option from season one that met such heated opposition before, but I do think the fandom has some sway over some decisions in the show.

[Nayuki]

I'd like to return to my original option from season one that met such heated opposition before, but I do think the fandom has some sway over some decisions in the show.

That was quite a while ago, but from what I remember of what you had been suggesting back then, I will continue to shake my head disapprovingly.

[pao]

<balance of good and evil; self-regulating society>

---Dave

Problem with this theory: The population of Canterlot.

Counterargument: The Princess knows who to keep close so they can't get in too much trouble.

[Shoggoth]

In regards to the reference mentioned above, that is pretty cool. I see it less as an designed fanservice bit, and more the folks on the team having fun with their work AND the fans. That is one of the reasons I like the shows crew. They know how to have fun.

Now, to a different topic. Nayuki, I have seen a couple of instances in the show of visibly 3D animations (The bucket at the start of swarm of the century for example), yet to my knowledge flash is largely a 2D tool. Are those instances just rendered frame by frame, or is it a 3D model imposed over the background?

The other question is sort of unrelated, but as someone in the industry, what would your thoughts be on using video game engines(or similar) as movie making tools? I have noticed a lot of powerful game engines being put out for licensed use as well as seeing some very creative fan machiminia, and I am wondering why no one has thought of the potential to use those programs to make shows.

[Nayuki]

Now, to a different topic. Nayuki, I have seen a couple of instances in the show of visibly 3D animations (The bucket at the start of swarm of the century for example), yet to my knowledge flash is largely a 2D tool. Are those instances just rendered frame by frame, or is it a 3D model imposed over the background?

That was done in 2D. I remember my co-worker putting in quite a bit of work getting the layers and shape-tweening just right to give it as 3D of a feel as possible. To my knowledge we haven't used any 3D tools on MLP. Another example of "I can't believe it's not 3D" would be one of the stain-glass scenes in RoH part 1.

The other question is sort of unrelated, but as someone in the industry, what would your thoughts be on using video game engines(or similar) as movie making tools? I have noticed a lot of powerful game engines being put out for licensed use as well as seeing some very creative fan machiminia, and I am wondering why no one has thought of the potential to use those programs to make shows.

These are my personal opinions on the matter, I have no experience working with game engines and machinima. People have done some really amazing machinima using game engines, but I personally don't see it as being very viable for things like tv shows from a production stand point. For one, you are immediately limited by whatever restrictions are inherent within the game engine which was designed for games (and not shows) in the first place. I think it's more of a hobby thing. That being said, I've seen some absolutely horrendously done shows on tv, so I guess anything is possible. Could it be done? Possibly. Would be at the quality I think we should expect from shows... probably not. I think machinima will stay as fan-video medium.

[Cybersnark]

Well, there's Zixx: Level One, which used a (customized) video game engine to render the virtual "Keep" (subsequent seasons [Level Two and Three] used more conventional CG animation --provided by our friends at Mainframe, in fact).

Though, in Zixx's case, the "oddness" of the Keep (compared to the real world, brought to life by live actors) was a plot-point.

[Matenshi]

These are my personal opinions on the matter, I have no experience working with game engines and machinima. People have done some really amazing machinima using game engines, but I personally don't see it as being very viable for things like tv shows from a production stand point. For one, you are immediately limited by whatever restrictions are inherent within the game engine which was designed for games (and not shows) in the first place. I think it's more of a hobby thing. That being said, I've seen some absolutely horrendously done shows on tv, so I guess anything is possible. Could it be done? Possibly. Would be at the quality I think we should expect from shows... probably not. I think machinima will stay as fan-video medium.

You're most likely right (at least now), but I think nothing's ever impossible.

I mean, look at Beast Wars. No one thought that would work, yet it was an amazing show.

[pao]

CR! (A That Guy With The Glasses contributor who you may also recall from his two-part MLP retrospective) gave reviewing this episode a shot.

I give his review squiggle out of kerplonk, which is to say I'm not metareviewing. That way lies madness.

This post has been edited by pao: Jan 31 2012, 09:25 PM

[Sobana]

I'd like to return to my original option from season one that met such heated opposition before, but I do think the fandom has some sway over some decisions in the show.

That was quite a while ago, but from what I remember of what you had been suggesting back then, I will continue to shake my head disapprovingly.

I think your confusing this with a different topic, but anyhow, I made mention that since they used Derpy as a reoccurring background character primarily as a shout out to the older fans that they might purposely add in more well known background ponies for the fans in season two and the reply I got back from like 90% people of this site was like "Nay! The foul corruptible influence of the fandom will never darken this wholly innocent and pure show! Away with you heretic!" and you said there was not, nor will there ever be, a purposely adding of background ponies besides Derpy for the fandom, it will never be more then just a simple color scheme. In fact, for the longest time a lot of the fans here denied that Derpy was even for the fans, just dismissing her as a reoccurring fluke. Now the same fans treat her like a easter egg.

It was like the weirdest debate for the longest time, I was like "C'mon, they just did a shout out for bronies in their commerical, you have to admit the fandom has some influence on the show" and you guys were like "Nay! The advertising department and the show are two completely different entities existing on different planes of existence. Mark my words, fan influence will never effect this show!" then I just gave up trying, knowing someday you will be forced to see the truth and know I was right.

But, man, it is such a relief to see this site finally accept the fact that the fandom does have a little influence on the show. I no longer have to hide in fear of persecution any longer. I knew this day would come when people would see and accept the world as I have already seen it! ^.^ *skitters about joyfully*

[Matenshi]

No one meant in the same way you

Never mind; not even getting into this.

This post has been edited by Matenshi: Feb 1 2012, 01:55 AM

[TM2-Megatron]

I still don't see the things happening to the show that I've seen people claim were going to happen. Where's the intentional "plot" that everyone goes on about? Some people seem to see it so much (despite claiming to hate it) that I think they must actually want it to be there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)

Yeah, they've thrown Derpy in there as a shout-out; and as of last weekend we got Doctor Whooves in a Tennant-style tie; but you guys honestly think a few harmless things like that is going to lead to weird sexualizing or other "mature" stuff? Give me a break. The only negative aspect to Derpy's recent speaking role was the way a handful of halfwits reacted to it.

[Shoggoth]

Yep.
But there is still a time to make a decision on fanservice in future series. I really hope this kind of reaction to Derpy will put the end to it, if not... well, as I said before - I'm not really looking to s03. I even started to skip some s02 episodes (used to keep up with them before).


Oh no, I ain't even touching this one. Is it so bad? >_>

Kein, you are weird. You think the show has been ruined because they put in little background gags for us that they could have put in even if we didn't exist? Very weird. Certainly overreacting, skipping episodes and all. (I sort of want to know which ones)

As to the episode review, if you actually bothered to take a look you would find that it is very positive, and that he praises the fact that they had what was very obviously The Music Man inspiration for the song, on top of believable antagonists. That guy is actually rather objective, as shown in his video on the season one pilot episodes.

[Sobana]

Yeah, they've thrown Derpy in there as a shout-out; and as of last weekend we got Doctor Whooves in a Tennant-style tie; but you guys honestly think a few harmless things like that is going to lead to weird sexualizing or other "mature" stuff? Give me a break. The only negative aspect to Derpy's recent speaking role was the way a handful of halfwits reacted to it.

I never made mention of any sexual or mature content in my statement, only the acknowledgement of the fandom by the creators. If that is the impression you get from my comment, then that is just a testament to the level of depravity of your own mind or an unwillingness to try to understand what is being said.

[DrSpengler]

Yeah, they've thrown Derpy in there as a shout-out; and as of last weekend we got Doctor Whooves in a Tennant-style tie; but you guys honestly think a few harmless things like that is going to lead to weird sexualizing or other "mature" stuff? Give me a break. The only negative aspect to Derpy's recent speaking role was the way a handful of halfwits reacted to it.

I never made mention of any sexual or mature content in my statement, only the acknowledgement of the fandom by the creators. If that is the impression you get from my comment, then that is just a testament to the level of depravity of your own mind or an unwillingness to try to understand what is being said.

I think he was referring to the tirades you used to go on some months back, where you were POSITIVE the animators were throwing in intentional "plot shots" to the fans. People haven't forgotten those posts as quickly as you've seemed to.

[Scavgraphics]

The problem is Sobana's using the word "influence", which has the wrong connotation.

Fandom has "influenced" the show's direction in the other week's episode in that a scene was directly written as a hat tip to fans with Derpy.

Doctor Whooves there isn't an "influence", but it is a shout out. They needed a time keeper for the scene. And it was decided "as long as someone is going to be keeping time let's use Whooves." either as a shout out, or because the particular artist likes Whooves.

Being aware of fandom and acknowledging it isn't the same as being influenced by it.


TLDR: Doctor Whooves keeping time isn't "fan influence"...the mane 6 going on adventures inside Doctor Whooves' blue farm house is.

[Scavgraphics]

CR! (A That Guy With The Glasses contributor who you may also recall from his two-part MLP retrospective) gave reviewing this episode a shot.

I give his review squiggle out of kerplonk, which is to say I'm not metareviewing. That way lies madness.

A good review...much better than the bulk of the NC's Disney reviews, many of them broke down to "I don't think Disney should do this kind of story".

[Nayuki]

I think your confusing this with a different topic, but anyhow, I made mention that since they used Derpy as a reoccurring background character primarily as a shout out to the older fans that they might purposely add in more well known background ponies for the fans in season two and the reply I got back from like 90% people of this site was like "Nay! The foul corruptible influence of the fandom will never darken this wholly innocent and pure show! Away with you heretic!" and you said there was not, nor will there ever be, a purposely adding of background ponies besides Derpy for the fandom, it will never be more then just a simple color scheme. In fact, for the longest time a lot of the fans here denied that Derpy was even for the fans, just dismissing her as a reoccurring fluke. Now the same fans treat her like a easter egg.

Derpy is our shoutout to the bronies. It's been this way since halfway through season 1. I'd love to know what other examples of background ponies in season 2 you think are direct shoutouts to fans, because I don't think we are defining things the same way which may be cause for some confusion. Derpy is the only background pony whose status has changed, and I honestly don't foresee any other background pony getting the same treatment.

Do you see any differences between a shoutout and an easter egg? For me, I consider Derpy as something for the fans, whereas if I put a silly green unicorn in the background (something I've been doing since before it became a hit with the fans) I see it more as an easter egg, something I do for fun, regardless of if bronies were around or not, and it's something I will continue to do. You'll find these sorts of things in a lot of cartoons, it's just something artists do for fun when it's appropriate.

It was like the weirdest debate for the longest time, I was like "C'mon, they just did a shout out for bronies in their commerical, you have to admit the fandom has some influence on the show" and you guys were like "Nay! The advertising department and the show are two completely different entities existing on different planes of existence. Mark my words, fan influence will never effect this show!" then I just gave up trying, knowing someday you will be forced to see the truth and know I was right.

Nay! The advertising department and the show are two completely different entities. What the Hub does to advertise the show and what DHX does making the show are unrelated. They have their own artists for stuff. I was as surprised as anyone to see things like the Equestria Girls commercial or the Bridle Maids billboard.

But, man, it is such a relief to see this site finally accept the fact that the fandom does have a little influence on the show. I no longer have to hide in fear of persecution any longer. I knew this day would come when people would see and accept the world as I have already seen it! ^.^ *skitters about joyfully*

By no means am I trying to persecute you. I find you to be a valuable member of the community, but I do try to clear up what I see things as misunderstandings when I can. I really hope everyone continues to enjoy the show, I suppose sometimes I may seem like a 'negative-nancy', but really I just try to keep things a little grounded in reality. Sometimes it's okay to just say "Hey, it's a cartoon. Maybe we're taking things a little too seriously here."

I think I need to coin a new term: 'The Brony Goggle Effect'. You can probably see where I'm going with this... it's pretty much where a brony chooses to interpret things seen in the show as directly targeted at them even when there is really no easter egg or shoutout in the first place. As an example, if 2 random background ponies happen to be in a scene together, people with 'brony goggles' may interpret it as the pair sharing a romantic relationship and being a shoutout instead of the far more likely truth that they are simply part of a crowd meant to make Ponyville feel like a lively town instead of a barren wasteland with no other ponies but the main cast. "OMG, if we freeze-frame this scene just right, it looks they're making lovey-dovey eyes! What? They're just blinking? Nah, that would actually make sense, and we can't have that."

The way we make the show hasn't changed from season 1 to 2, and won't change going from season 2 to 3. Our goal is still to make an awesome cartoon for girls that their parents can enjoy watching with them, and if parents can enjoy the show, there's no reason other adults can't too. Really it just comes down to us wanting to make the show good, and good is something anyone can like.

I really, really was considering not replying to this since it's going to draw more attention to myself than I like. The last thing I want is to be the subject of front page EQD news. I honestly like to think that my posts are merely me posting what I believe to be common sense.

PS - Since I know someone is inevitably going to screenshot this and post it on ponibooru... /waves to ponibooru. You crazy, crazy people... how in the world did I get a whole tag dedicated to me? /sigh. I'm not that important, really.

EDIT:

The problem is Sobana's using the word "influence", which has the wrong connotation.

...[trimmed for brevity]...

Being aware of fandom and acknowledging it isn't the same as being influenced by it.

TLDR: Doctor Whooves keeping time isn't "fan influence"...the mane 6 going on adventures inside Doctor Whooves' blue farm house is.

This post has been edited by Nayuki: Feb 1 2012, 02:17 PM

[Scavgraphics]

f I put a silly green unicorn in the background (something I've been doing since before it became a hit with the fans) I see it more as an easter egg, something I do for fun, regardless of if bronies were around or not, and it's something I will continue to do.

Heh...I was gonna use Lyra gags as an additional example, but decided I didn't want to drag you back in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-fire.gif)

PS - Since I know someone is inevitably going to screenshot this and post it on ponibooru... /waves to ponibooru. You crazy, crazy people... how in the world did I get a whole tag dedicated to me? /sigh. I'm not that important, really.

In your mind, you're "just a layout artist"...but you're OUR layout artist!

[Matenshi]

In your mind, you're "just a layout artist"...but you're OUR layout artist!

We will name him George, and we will hug him and pet him and squeeze him...

[Cabooceratops]

I actually kinda thought it was Lyra, myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-waspy.gif)