Ratbat, How Do You Like Him? Options

[CORVUS]

Indeed. My favorite portrayal always has been in Marvel G1: as the Decepticon Fuel Accountant and Auditor, who schemed his way to the command of the Earth-Bound Decepticons. There, Soundwave was under his command, and he didn't really depend upon him in any significant way.

[Bass X0]

In the Marvel comics, did Ratbat and Soundwave ever so much as meet?

Flames of Boltax is the only issue I remember. Soundwave was operating the Realvision.

[LV!]

Ratbat as a leader in the Marvel comics is great. Why? Because it took a character concept, regardless of what he turned into or whether he had a humanoid robot mode or whatever, and used him in a really clever way as a guy who took over the Decepticons by means other than being the one who turned into the biggest gun.

The Dreamwave-IDW "oh he USED to be important when he looked like people but HA HA now he's a bat" thing strikes me as pointless at best and distasteful at worst. For someone who grew up with Ravage as a quite significant character via the UK comics, the cartoon's "well the animals are all just animals" thing doesn't need to be kept around.

[Destron D-69]

the two pack Cybertron repaint is the one I keep on my 'classics' shelf... but the shelf itself is laid out as close to chronologically as I can get it. so Ratbat's near the left most side.

Ultimately I don't like one characterization over the other, as I can clearly see reasons why both work in the story.

[ExVee]

Fuel Auditor Ratbat is really only so wonderful as a concept because of the bat/cassette body. If you remove that, he becomes just another dude optionally with a bat motif. It just isn't as interesting without that angle.

[Walky]

In the Marvel comics, did Ratbat and Soundwave ever so much as meet?

Flames of Boltax is the only issue I remember. Soundwave was operating the Realvision.

UNSOLICITED!

(or ANTISOLICITED)

(IMG:http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/8/8c/FlamesofBoltax-SoundwaveRatbat.jpg)

[NICKSAUR]

I'll take IDW's compromise, but I really wish he was always a bat who turned into whatever the cybertronian equivalent of a cassette tape is. He rules with his mind, not his body. Hell, he can still be a senator, he doesn't NEED a robot mode. The bat IS his robot mode.

[Spark]

At least in Exodus, he was always a bat and a senator. He even rode around in some other guy.

[ZacWilliam1]

Both are fine, but if I could only ever have one, the Marvel Comics version all the way.

I prefer the cassettes be like their Toy Bios: Actual and interesting characters who just happen to have non-humanoid forms.


-ZacWilliam, all the personalities in those bios are MUCH more interesting than: animal. And this is comming from the guy who's probably spent more time than anyone else EVER drawing Cybertronian animals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon-arcee.gif)

[Cybersnark]

Does anyone else get tickled at the idea of Megatron taking a potentially strong rival, reformatting him into a minicon, and lobotomizing him into an animal to use as a 3rd class lackey?

This, actually. Though I prefer to think that it was Soundwave that did it, as exquisitely cruel and poetically ironic punishment for some unspecified torment that Ratbat inflicted back when Ratbat was a Senator and Soundwave was a mere slave. Probably something having to do with Ravage, Laserbeak, or Buzzsaw, who I do consider to be animal-like.

Maybe the Cybertronian equivalent of dog-fighting.

(Though I feel compelled to point out that, as a [former and future] pet-owner, I consider animals to have full personalities just like humans. I've known too many housecats to think otherwise.)

[Shadoman]

The idea that a mini-cassette can't be an important character is basically brought on by toy advertising thinking. The leader doesn't have to be the same guy with the biggest, most expensive toy . Plus, Buzzsaw has been just as dangerous and lethal, more so than most humanoid bots. I like that a tiny little bat robot that turns into a long outdated piece of technology is a feared leader.

[Walky]

In an alternate universe, we're laughing at the idea that a guy who transforms into a tiny handgun could be leader, rather than, obviously, the huge jet.

[Magnusblitz]

Marvel G1 Ratbat will always be "the" Ratbat to me. I love the fuel accountant/auditor role, especially since it means he can lead when needed but isn't super power-hungry either and will work with others... as long as it's efficient. "Senator Ratbat" to me tends to be written like a weaker version of Starscream. There's already too many Decepticons who care about nothing but backstabbing ambition... at least for Fuel Auditor Ratbat it's secondary to efficiency.

Cassette animal Ratbat is boring and might as well be the same as Laserbeak, Buzzsaw, etc.

[Chip]

But... that doesn't mean I necessarily appreciate Senator Ratbat. Like I said, I already consider the Recordicons their own characters, so the story about him being a former "normal" Transformer shoved into a Recordicon shell is just superfluous for me. And it takes what I liked about Marvel Ratbat (the leadership/size discrepancy) and tries to explain it. When I don't want an explanation at all.

Exactly. Guy's got a non-standard body, and he's worked his way up. No further explanation is needed. I don't really mind the Aligned angle of him being from a race of Mini-Cons, since that's not jumping through any hoops; if you've got Mini-Cons, it makes sense that he'd be one of them.

I do like his War Within design a lot, but when he first showed up I figured his eventual downsizing would be something he'd chosen for the sake of fuel efficiency. The idea that he would be forcibly "downgraded" into a Recordicon implies that being one is bad, which doesn't work for me.

[NICKSAUR]

he idea that he would be forcibly "downgraded" into a Recordicon implies that being one is bad, which doesn't work for me.

This much is true.

SOUNDWAVE: Ok, I'm going to punish Ratbat real good.

RAVAGE: Oh sweet! He's an idiot, anyways. How will you punish him?

SOUNDWAVE: I'm going to make him an animal, that transforms into a cassette, and force him to live in my chest, only to be summoned when I can best exploit him for my own needs. A truly miserable existence.

RAVAGE:...

[G.B.Blackrock]

Marvel G1 Ratbat will always be "the" Ratbat to me. I love the fuel accountant/auditor role, especially since it means he can lead when needed but isn't super power-hungry either and will work with others... as long as it's efficient. "Senator Ratbat" to me tends to be written like a weaker version of Starscream. There's already too many Decepticons who care about nothing but backstabbing ambition... at least for Fuel Auditor Ratbat it's secondary to efficiency.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Kalidor]

It's not like Ravage and Laserbeak were dumb even in the cartoon. They were certainly smarter than Rumble and Frenzy were.

Laserbeak was a spy so he had to be sapient enough to be stealthy. He was also a pretty competent fighter. They obviously could understand language well enough to know what to record and how important it was. It's not like Laserbeak ever flew back to show Megatron how her recorded Ironhide telling Huffer to STFU because he was complaining about moisture in his joints.

Ravage was smart enough to over hear the plan, know it was a ruse and still grab the keys and escape from the Autobots in More than Meets the eye.

So yeah -- they might have had the equivalent of TF:Primbe Bumblebee's vocalizations -- but they were still as smart as any other character (and as someone already pointed out, probably smarter than many)

[Database]

he idea that he would be forcibly "downgraded" into a Recordicon implies that being one is bad, which doesn't work for me.

This much is true.

SOUNDWAVE: Ok, I'm going to punish Ratbat real good.

RAVAGE: Oh sweet! He's an idiot, anyways. How will you punish him?

SOUNDWAVE: I'm going to make him an animal, that transforms into a cassette, and force him to live in my chest, only to be summoned when I can best exploit him for my own needs. A truly miserable existence.

RAVAGE:...

You're looking at it, sorta, the wrong way. Making a pompous senator into animal and treating him as a lesser being, doesn't disrespect others. Its not like if someone that owned dogs, kidnapped you and forced you to act like one is degrading the real dogs they own, but you're certainly not going to like it. in a less extreme example; Think of it more of going from Senator to Fry Cook. its a big blow to the person, but isn't insulting those in a similar position.

[NICKSAUR]

Not really. I've worked in places where people were sometimes "punished" by doing the same work I did everyday.

Ravage and Laserbeak take great pride in their work. I can't imagine they'd exactly enjoy being in the same category as a piece of garbage like Ratbat. I doubt any of the Recordicons would think less of their duties UNTIL being one became someone's punishment. That's kinda where the problem lies.

[NICKSAUR]

Don't get me wrong, I get it, but the point is, being a recordicon isn't limiting at all.